This week, we speak with Mary Ruiz, former CEO of Centerstone of Florida (f/k/a Manatee Glens) and newly elected board chair of MCR Health, Inc. In this episode, we discuss how Mary’s experience as a CEO helps her be a more effective board member, why the Executive Committee may be a relic of the past, and how to get the most out of fellow board members. With her wisdom and experience, Mary gives valuable and useful tips for CEOs, board members, and nonprofits.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introducing Mary Ruiz
02:40 How did you become CEO of Centerstone?
03:53 What does a CEO need from their board?
05:50 How did you structure your board meetings?
10:25 How does being CEO make you a better board member?
12:20 Recruiting board members for a specific purpose
16:00 What should board members avoid doing?
20:20 Compare and contrast the roles you have had
23:05 Advice for CEOs
25:30 Advice for board members
27:27 You are not having enough fun
Transcript:
Michael: On this week’s episode. i501c You the podcast for nonprofit board members. I’m interviewing a dear old friend I’ve known for a number years who helped me cut my teeth and being a board member, Mary Ruiz former CEO of Center Stone, previously named Manatee Glen’s in Manatee County, who now serves as board chair, incoming board chair for MCR Health and Board, a trustee for the Bishop Parker Foundation, and she’s had other board services throughout her years.
So she’s going to bring in this interview the life of a CEO and the life of a board member and bring the two together. So please enjoy this interview. Hey, I want to jump in real quick. Somebody asked me other day, what does the Corley Company do? Well, we do three things for nonprofits. One, we facilitate meetings. Yes, like board retreats where we discuss governance and strategy with all the members of the board.
Number two, advise CEOs and help them as they make decisions and implement actions to drive their mission. And then finally, we produce podcasts such as this one, but also for a number of nonprofits to help you get the word out, get your message out. So if you’re interested in any of these services, please feel free to reach out to Michael@thecorleycompany.com.
Now back to the podcast. All right. As I said in my intro, I had the pleasure of interviewing Mary Ruiz today. Mary and I are friends from a number of years ago, a number of years ago, which may come up in conversation today. But her claim to fame, she was CEO of Manatee Glens, which became CenterStone and well, a number of years ago when I was on the board and she led that.
And since that time, she’s now serving as the board chair, incoming board chair for MCR Health and a board of trustees for the Bishop Parker Foundation in Manatee County. So, Mary, if you would, if you would introduce yourself and tell our audience a little bit about how you got to become CEO of Center Stone and how you became on the board of trustees for Bishop Parker and MCR Health.
Mary: Sure. Happy to. Thanks for the invitation. I’m really looking forward to the podcast. So I became chair of MCR Health. I think it’s the end of my journey as a CEO, really, where all of my experiences in board governance and as a CEO kind of come to fruition. I went to MCR because I felt it was a good match and I volunteered.
Bishop Parker They tapped me because of their feeling that I was a good match with my knowledge of the nonprofit sector and my long history in Manatee County for them. So it can happen both ways. You can volunteer and you can be you can be tapped for board leadership.
Michael: So you’ve graduated to the board role. But tell us a little bit about your history and how you became CEO of Center Stone.
Mary: So I started at Manatee County Government and Community Services, and I worked there for almost nine years and was very involved with the nonprofit sector and thought, I really like that better than the public sector. It’s it has that combination of business along with a mission for the community. So I volunteered. I applied at the manatee Glance was hired and they’re kind of government relations.
So my expertise with government was what manatee glands needed at the time. Eight years later, thanks to the mentorship of then CEO Bob Moore and also my acquiring an MBA degree, which is where I went and met you. Mike We were classmates and.
Michael: We were.
Mary: Doubles, and so I was tapped to be interim CEO and then selected to be CEO. So I worked my way up through the ranks.
Michael: You really did. And you were absolutely passionate about behavioral health. Certainly when I was on your had an opportunity to serve on your board and work with you. And I’m curious, you were a longtime CEO and would explain to the audience a little bit from a CEO perspective, what did you need from your board and what were your expectations from a board of directors?
Mary: What a CEO needs the most from their board is for them to ask good questions because the CEOs are in the weeds trying to get patient care or the mission accomplished, always challenged, not always able to look up and see the bigger picture. And so what what is a good question? Well, how does this initiative, CEO that you want to do align with the mission?
Does it make business sense? Do these current initiatives fill a community need? Are there are current operations sustainable And is this going to enhance that sustainability or put it at risk? And so those are the kinds of big questions. The board doesn’t need to know the answers right? They just need to think about the big questions because that really helps a CEO clarify and look at things they might have overlooked.
And so good questions are big questions. Now what about the small questions? I think they have a place also, but not at the board meeting. What a CEO needs is for board members to read their packets, write their questions down, and call the CEO to get their answers, because we’re taking up valuable board time with small questions, but the small questions need to be answered, but not at the board meeting.
Michael: I like that. Now, I’m glad you brought up the concept of board meetings because I tell you, that’s where I cut my teeth. Was being on your board and just I was enamored by the efficiency there was a process in place from a committees to the board meetings to that package. And so you you obviously worked very hard to structure that.
Can you talk a little bit about your philosophy and how you structure board meetings and working with the board chairs to prepare for those meetings?
Mary: So committees are absolutely essential. Some people kind of view them as a pattern, but a board has a lot of big decisions to make. It’s too much ground to cover in most organizations, and the board has to delegate to its teammates. And those are the committees. Also, committees allow the staff to plan for what the board needs to know, what needs to be presented, and the committee can give the staff input.
Well, this seems to be missing or we’d like more information about this or this information seems to contradict something in the document, and it allows the staff to prepare really crisp and comprehensive information for the board. Without committees, a board’s ability to govern is eroded. It’s hollowed out because there’s no way in a board meeting with the short notice that most people have with the board material that a board can really govern.
So without a good committee structure, you don’t really have the opportunity for good board governance. So what the committees do is it allows the staff to have a calendar. Well, I’ve got to have this material to the committees by such and such a date. So we better talk about it as staff organizes the staff and the committees organize the board.
I think there are some committees that boards typically don’t have and should and reversed some committees that boards have that they probably shouldn’t. And so what every board should have is a governance committee and people kind of puzzle what is a governance do. Well, they they are looking at the board as a team. What is the leadership succession?
What training do our board members need to be good team members? How do we orient the new members? How do we recruit new members? How do we evaluate and train our board members? How do we deal with conflicts of interest or ethical challenges? Because a governance committee is a CEO and a board chairs best friends. Because if the governance committee isn’t doing these things, then the CEO and the board chair are.
And frankly, it’s too much. It’s too much to do in addition to the other responsibilities, a committee that I don’t think people should have anymore is an executive committee good?
Michael: What do you think that I’m glad you brought that up.Mary: And the reason is that when we had to get to the board meetings on our ponies and wagons, you know, you needed time, you needed to expose to get to the meeting. And I’m exaggerating for a fact. But today with Zoom, you can call a board meeting with without anybody getting together, you know, and phone conferences and other things.
Mary: So the original purpose for an executive committee committee is obsolete. But they also an executive committee also comes with dangers. I have seen executive committee members because they get more meetings, more information. They feel like they have more influence than any other board member. Sometimes it can become a self-perpetuating click where the officers are always being generated from the executive mittee, or in a worst case where the executive committee feels so close to the operations that they violate that line between staff and and board.
And so most most best practice advice for boards is do have a governance committee, don’t don’t have an executive committee.
Michael: And I’m glad you said that because it’s interesting. You know, you had an executive committee back in the day when all meetings were in-person. It was hard to get them together. You have a large board. And so no longer that, you know, that obstacle has been removed. So thank you for sharing that. And you know, what I also observed is if you had a very effective executive committee, it became an excuse for other board members not to even read the packet, not to be engaged.
They said, executives got that right. And boy, how disempowering.
Mary: It is those forum. And that’s the main reason not to have one, because every every board member should have been recruited for a purpose in their expertise. And you don’t want to disempower that contribution.
Michael: Very good. Very intentional in the recruiting. So you’ve served as CEO, set, make you a better board member, do you think?
You know, as CEO, I got a different perspective of a board because 20 years of CEO, I work with many variations and versions of board and board members, and I came to acquire the understanding that a board is a team and you have to have all the positions you need on the team. You have to have somebody with good finance background, somebody who understands good nonprofit governance, somebody who has interest and ability to lead the board, people who have strong connections in the community.
And so the board is a team and that makes the chair, the coach and the chair should be serving the team and having them, you know, reach the goal line. And so I think that’s what that’s what is has been my biggest takeaway. I think as a CEO looking at a board over many, many iterations. And so back to your comment about disempowering through executive committee, that’s that’s that’s it’s a fatal flaw really, because you’re missing something you really need if the board isn’t acting as a team.
So I don’t I don’t recommend strategic plan committees that is a committee of the whole or you don’t have the contribution and expertise that you need. And of course, as a CEO, can we talk, as Joan Rivers used to say, I also had the opportunity to review a lot of bad behavior. And so I think it’s helpful to me to to understand what good board practice looks like and the things and the things to avoid.
Michael: Yeah, and you mentioned something a few minutes ago about recruiting board members for a specific purpose based on a skill set. And you seem to be really good when you were CEO to do that. Can you take a look? Did you have a philosophy, an approach? Were you always looking? How could you make sure you had a strong board?
Mary: So there’s a tool that is in common use in nonprofit governance, and it’s called the board matrix. And what you do is you take all your existing board members and think about what are the talents that you need. And we mentioned some of the leadership, governance, finance, maybe experience in the mission, maybe government relations. You know, it’s different for different nonprofits fundraising.
And so you take your current board members and you see which of the roles that they fill and whatever you’re missing, that’s what you recruit to. But I think it’s also important to charge the board members, this is why you’re on the board. So M.S., Our health was very clear. Mary, you’re on the board because you have health care experience.
That’s why they want me. They’re interested in my health care experience. And they were also interested in my leadership and my nonprofit governance because they wanted to bring the board to a next level. So I have a very clear mission as a board member. What is expected. And so the board matrix allows you to recruit for what you’re missing, but it also allows you to charge your board members because, you know, if I were looking at a board matrix, I could fill out, Well, I have regulatory experience, I have government relations experience, but that is not what’s needed.
That’s not the right match. They wanted different things for me. And so it allows you to go to board members and say, This is why we’re interested in you. This is the leadership contribution we’re we’re interested in, in recruiting you for. And these are the kinds of leadership goals that we hope you’ll set for us in the organization, because I can’t tell you and how sad this makes me to say this.
Many board members don’t know why they’re there.
Michael: Yeah.
Mary: They don’t know why they’re there. They they’re good hearted volunteers who want to make a contribution, but they’re waiting to figure that out. And so how long before they lose interest? Because they don’t know why they’re there and how long how long does the organization go with now? So the board matrix allows you to make sure you have everything you need and also to charge the individual board members with what their personal contribution needs to be.
And I think that’s very motivating for board members. One of the things that I really recommend when people are recruiting board members is to check references of other boards in which they’ve served many people with prominent names just don’t make good board members. Sometimes they’re even disruptive or they’re not strong contributors. And so a reference check will quietly allow you to maybe not consider a name, but otherwise has a great standing in the community for many good reasons.
Just not for serving on a board.
Michael: I would think so. And you did a really good job. Did you engage board members? I know when I was serving on your board, but I’m going to ask you this question, and I always are going to be directed towards me when I ask you this. What what did what angst what angst is there the board members called to.
Mary: Call this The tales from the dark side of board.
Michael: Yes. Well, what should board members avoid do and what angst does it cause CEOs, I think board members need to understand this.
Mary: Yeah, they do. You know, most of my board members made me so proud and it was a pleasure and part of the satisfaction of my job. And so but there are a few painful exceptions, and so let’s just talk about them. One of the things that people get confused about is, well, I have a great business and I offer a great service, and so I want you to benefit from my great service to my great business.
Mary: That cannot happen. And I have recruited people on the board with, say, insurance expertise. But when I did, I made it very clear you’re making a decision between serving on this board or competing for my insurance business, but never the two shall meet.
Michael: Very good. And Mary, I have seen. That’s really yeah.
Mary: I have seen boards really be disadvantaged where decisions were made by a board chair who happened to be an expert, who happened to have an insurance company of a potential merger. And they were against that merger because they would lose the insurance business. This is not our board, Mike, But so it’s it’s not frivolous to draw that line.
And I also think because board members get a comfort with the organization, they feel part of the organization. Well, it’s okay to ask for copies to be made or utilize equipment or, you know, because we’re all we’re all part of the same organization, aren’t we? And that’s just that’s just tacky. I think another thing that board members do, perhaps, you know, unintentionally, is they get worried that the organization maybe isn’t doing its best and they start talking about it around town to their friends, to their family who tell other people.
And now and now that the board is contributing to the loss of reputation of the organization, a CEO always wants to know what the community loves about the organization, what the community has concerns, because that is the function of board member to keep that CEO in touch. So it’s not it’s but the board member should be talking to the CEO about these things and not very good and not the community.
And I think the other thing is talking to the media, unless you’ve been designated by the board, no one should talk to the media except for through the board and the CEO have designated. So and I always think divulging confidential information because you don’t know what’s going to get back to funders or bank or, you know, there’s a duty of loyalty.
And that means you only say good things about the organization outside the organization. So those may not be the things that you were anticipating me to say, but those are the things that cause me the most grief. And of course, we all want board members to come to the meeting, be prepared to contribute, read the packet. You know, serve on committees.
That back goes without saying. Donate to the organization and there’s kind of a minimum set of things that a CEO needs. But these are things that should never happen. And if they do, they go to the governance committee because no CEO wants to call a board member to task. The board needs to call the board member to task.
Michael: Very well stated. I think that’s really, really important for people to understand, and I appreciate you sharing those things of angst because, you know, a lot of those are just innocent, naive statements out in the community. But wait a second. You are representing that organization and it should be positive outside the four walls, right. Or support supportive, right side the for.
Mary: Forward because that’s what we would expect of our employees.
Michael: That may well stated Well stated so so you’re CEO you’ve been a CEO, you’re now in the board of trustees of a private foundation and you are the incoming board chair for a very large nonprofit health care organization, MCI, a health share with the others. Compare and contrast those roles a little bit. I mean, these are three really different roles in the whole scheme of things.
So your breadth of skill set, I mean, you got a quite a broad skill set, but just talk a little bit, compare and contrast of the audience.
Mary: I’m also served on a higher education public board. You served county commissioners who were elected. So yeah, there there are differences, but really there’s more similarities. The board is a team. You need strong committees, you need leadership succession, you need board training, you need a smooth process where board members are prepared to to contribute. I think in in public venues like with a county commission or a higher ed public board, you have the sunshine.
Sure. And you can’t talk to each other about board matters, which is very counterintuitive because that’s to be encouraged. Otherwise, on an on a different kind of board, I think that with the foundation board there is a high degree of need for discretion in people who have applied, people who have been awarded. Of course, everybody wants to proudly say they’ve been supported in their mission.
And you learn a lot of things about organizations through that process. You’re interviewing staff. You’re you know, you’re looking at things. And so there’s a lot that comes into foundation that never should never, should, never should come out. And I think with a with a health care organization, which I’ve served as a CEO and now a board member, it’s a highly regulatory environment.
And so compliance becomes a higher priority for the board if you have a largely government funded organization that regulate that regulatory and government relations is just essential if you are a nonprofit, depending on fundraising, you have to have a fundraising board. That’s the primary focus of the board. So, you know, really the mission drives what the board priorities are and also what the board’s, you know, function is, what kind of committees you need.
And and so it kind of flows from the mission. But I think in the main good board practice is good board practice pretty good.
Michael: So I’m going to since since I’ve got you, I’ve picked on you because you’re both CEO and you’ve got board experience. If giving advice to a CEO working with the board, what advice would you give him or her? And then as a board member working with the CEO, maybe even a board chair, advice you would give him or her?
Mary: Right. So in terms of advice for the CEO, we’ve already touched on this. Don’t assume your board members know why they’re there. Because I have found more likely than not, they do not even if you’ve told them they need to be reminded. There’s a kind of humility and about board members who seek service. They’re not doing it to toot their own horn.
And so I think that kind of plays into, No, no, you’re really good at this and that’s why that’s why you’re here. And then to feed back to the board member every time you see them. I really appreciate that you did this. It’s so valuable. And just say over and over again. I think I think that board members, some of my most contributing board members would say to me, I just don’t know what I’m doing to this board.
I’m like, Well, it’s this, this, this and this. And I look at them and it’s almost as if they’re skeptical, like, she’s just saying that to be nice. So I think the basic humbleness of people who want to contribute to the community and are not doing it for their own purposes, they need they need to be reminded of it, and they also deserve recognition, announcing when they’re appointed to the board, announcing when they’re made leadership or running a chair or running of an event.
I think that that doesn’t mean something to everyone, but it means a lot to others. And I also think a CEO should remember that board members are volunteers and they’re donating their time and they have some personal reasons for why they’re wanting to do it. And a CEO needs to ask what that is. What what is your passion for the organization?
And the answers always surprise me and you know it as a volunteer. That’s the personal satisfaction that they’re looking for. And maybe it’s serving the clients at the at the Thanksgiving dinner. Who knows? But you have to ask. So that’s that’s my advice for a CEO. I think the advice for a board is the CEO is going to get filtered information from the community unless people are really nasty.
They may not tell the CEO things that they don’t think they want to hear. And so it’s really important for the board, to be honest. You know, I was at the blah, blah, blah event and this is the feedback I got about your services, because the board will hear things that the CEO won’t or praise things that are about you that maybe the organization doesn’t know or is highly value.
I think a board can also open doors for a CEO. They have a network of people that it would be good for the CEO to meet, either for their own career development in terms of learning leadership, or because that linkage can benefit the organization. So I always used to ask my board members, Look, if you’ve paid for a table at an event, I want to be there.
You know, I want to meet people. I want the organization to be seen in the community. And I also think in times of difficulty, you know, if a nonprofit has a, you know, a crisis or a controversy or things aren’t going well, that the board can promote confidence. Yes, this is what’s going on and this is what we’re doing about it.
And we’re going to we’re going to move through this. And and in that kind of an environment, the board can also offer a clear thinking in what can be a chaotic environment. So I think there’s a lot of contributions that have or can make that a CEO really appreciates above and beyond the governance.
Michael: Very good. Wow. This was this is like going to a classroom study on both CEO and board chair. Mary, is your last question. It’s kind of a wrap up questions and anything else you’d like to share with the audience that you think could be helpful for either prospective or current board members or CEOs, executive directors?
Mary: So I want to say you people are not having enough fun. I mean, nonprofit work is serious business. The staff or really dedicated, they’re working long hours. The board really cares. And so finding appropriate opportunities for play social, you know, getting together at a board members House or the CEO’s home, putting little toys that people can fiddle with at a board meeting just to break the tension.
You know, my son gave me this cup. It’s a Star Trek cup. And when you fill it with hot coffee, the transporter works.
And Mr. Spock appears in the transporter. So there are all kinds of ways that people can be playful. I think humor and play are good for everybody. And so that would that would be my parting advice for nonprofit CEOs and and members.
Michael: Well, there you heard it from somebody who has been there and done that, who’s now lending her talents and experiences to our community in several board capacities, as you heard. And she was a really, really good CEO. And it’s where I cut my teeth on board governance and learn what it meant to be a nonprofit board member. Mary Ruiz I cannot thank you enough for coming on today. It was great to see you and thank you so much.
Mary: You were most welcome. It was a pleasure.
Michael: All right. Now our segment recapping with Read. This was going to be tough read narrowed down to three, but what you got?
Read: All right. So number one, I have that that what the CEO needs from the board is to ask big questions to get the CEO out of the weeds of the day to day operations. And it’s important to remember, Mary said the board doesn’t need to know the answer to those questions. But they just need to bring them up to the CEO to get them to think at a higher level.
Michael: Yeah, and number two.
Read: That the board is a team. Each board member has a position on that team and the chair is the coach of the team.
Michael: Yeah, I like the way she articulated that. Number three.
Read: It’s important to tell people why they are on the board and then remind them why they are on the board. Because just because you tell them once, you might need to just constantly tell people why it is there on the board and for what reason.
Michael: And that’s one sure fire way to keep them engaged. You’re absolutely right. There you go. Ladies and gentlemen, recapping with read his observations from our interview with Mary RUAS. And I will 501 see you all next week.
Join us every week as we release a new podcast with information about how you can be the best board member and provide great service to your organization.
Listen to the podcast on any of the following platforms:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify Podcasts
Amazon
iHeartRadio
Visit us at: www.thecorleycompany.com/podcast