This week, we are speaking with Jonathan Fleece, President and CEO of Empath Health. Empath Health is a $380m, 3000+ employee hospice, home health, and senior care oriented organization serving 60,000+ people from central to southwest Florida.
Jonathan shares with us how he came to be the CEO of Empath Health, the needs of a CEO from their board members, and merging nonprofit organizations.
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” We are grateful Jonathan found out why, and is helping make our community a better place as CEO of Empath Health.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introducing Jonathan Fleece, President and CEO of Empath Health
06:20 Stepping off the board to interview for the CEO position
08:25 Compare the roles of a board member and CEO
11:40 For an organization of your size, what do you need from the board?
17:15 Communication between the CEO and the board
22:20 Merging organizations and nonprofit boards
27:00 What was the process of merging organizations?
30:20 Differences between running a nonprofit and for profit?
33:55 Biggest learning curve?
37:10 Recapping with Read
Transcript:
Michael:
On this week’s episode of I501cYou the podcast for nonprofit board members I interviewed Jonathan Fleece, President & CEO, what is now called Empath Health. Jonathan is a health care attorney by training, he sat on Tidewell Hospice’s Board for up to ten years until he put his hat in the ring to become president and CEO of Tidewell now which is Empath. So please join me as I interview Jonathan, please.
Hey, I want to jump in real quick. Somebody asked me other day, what does the Corley Company do? Well, we do three things for nonprofits. One, we facilitate meetings. Yes, like board retreats where we discuss governance and strategy with all the members of the board member to advise CEOs and help them as they make decisions and implement actions to drive their mission. And then finally, we produce podcasts such as this one, but also for a number of nonprofits to help you get the word out, get your message out. So if you’re interested in any of these services, please feel free to reach out to Michael@thecorleyompany.com. Now back to the podcast.
Well, I’m very excited for this week’s episode of the i501 See you the podcast for nonprofit board members. My guest is a longtime friend, Jonathan Fleece, now president and CEO of Empath Health. Jonathan, I know each other from way back from from our church days together before we both moved and had to go attend different churches. But Jonathan’s just a he’s a health care attorney, as I said in the intro and is now President CEO. So Jonathan, welcome. And if you would, would you just share a little bit about your background and how you got to become president and CEO of Empath Health?
Jonathan:
Well, thank you so much, Michael, for having me. A part of this this perspective and and I know very worthwhile podcast. So it’s really a pleasure to be here with you and the audience today. So a little bit about myself and background. I am the son of a minister and a nurse, so social service sector was part of my my youth and part of my, my growing up experience. I was honored to attend Emory University as an undergraduate and knew sort of early on, as a as a young man that I wanted to pursue health care in some way but didn’t know exactly how that would fit and feel So evaluated really various paths for that new clinical medicine was not really the path looked at. Masters of Health Administration’s programs, looked at law, ultimately settled on getting my health law degree, and was really very, very honored and privileged to graduate from Saint John’s University. And it was universities known for having one of the nation’s top health law programs and certainly a very proud Billiken for those who might know of of this little bill, kids out there started my career in the health care practice, working with large health care systems primarily across the Midwest. I worked on some fairly large integration deals, and then ultimately my wife and I had a personal tragedy, and that really changed the course of my life. We lost our first daughter to a fatal heart defect, very, very, very challenging time that ultimately created really a reset opportunity for me and for for my my wife, Amy, now 32 years. So we came home to Florida. I had roots in the Florida area. So did she. And I started my own health care law practice when we moved here and sort of hit a reset button, grew that to really a statewide platform and sizable health care law practice coincided with that all through the book with coauthor David Houle, a nationally known futurist, called The New Health Age Feature of Health Care in America. That book we published in 2010 around the Affordable Care Act that opened doors to consulting alongside law, but really felt like throughout this process that something was missing in my life. So along the way, I started volunteering for tribal hospice. At the time, it was a hospice, a not for profit in the Sarasota-Manatee Charlotte, DeSoto County area. And that really changed the trajectory of where I now sit today, work for that organization as a volunteer board member, really put together a strategic plan that included diversifying, growing, expanding And at some point when the CEO retired, that was sort of my moment to, I think, embark on what is now my life’s work. I resigned from the board with my name in a national search and then was ultimately selected as as the CEO. Little bit of a side turn. During that journey. We did merge with another organization now called Empath, but it’s the new empath. Although we merged with the Legacy Empath and did enough holding on to that name. So during that process went through a succession plan of their prior CEO. So I’m sort of been CEO, step back to president and CEO again. And really we’re full steam ahead with continued growth at Empath Health. So I’ll spend a very brief overview of what is Empath Health just for the benefit of your audience and sort of know that perspective. We are a hospice home help as well as senior care oriented organization. We serve about 60,000 people a year now as far north as Ocala, Florida, or more central Florida, all the way down to Naples in the southwest Florida area. And then in the process of hopefully growing and bringing on a new organization in the Palm Beach and Broward area that will make us the largest not for profit hospice in the country will serve one out of five Floridians when they need hospice care. But we have certainly broadened that, as I’ve mentioned, to what we call full life care. So it’s much more than hospice. It’s home based care. It really helps people during that serious terminal illness and often post acute doubt. So that may have been more than you wanted, but that’s sort of the 56 years of job in place in. And what was that, 5 minutes.
Michael:
Well, well-stated, Jonathan, what an amazing career you’ve had and certainly didn’t even do it justice because I know you better than that, but we just don’t have time to get into too many of the details. But it’s interesting, as you were talking to things, I want to highlight and ask you about one, clearly your humility, the humility. And this is a big organization. I mean, this is a whole nother level. And for you to step into that role of CEO. But going back to tied was very, very impressive. But you said something that may be governance related. I want people listen to you were on the board. You expressed an interest in CEO position or you had an interest. You resigned from the board, throw your hat in the ring. So you literally stepped off the board during the search process.
Jonathan:
Yes. So certainly felt like that was appropriate, wanted the board to feel fully independent and the process to be independent as well. So it was a separate committee that was formed, that was a search committee of the board. And then I stepped back from my board. Responsibility certainly did that for two reasons. One, I wanted to make sure if I was the best fit for the CEO position, that the organization itself and the community could see that we went through an independent process that was really no different than the other candidates, and it was a very competitive process. They narrowed it down, I think about 150 applicants to a pool town and then ultimately a pool of three. And then I was one of the finalists. But yeah, I felt like it was important to to really establish that independence during the process.
Michael:
And a lot of people would not have done that. I like I like that because a lot of this podcast is about good governance, that is excellent governance and put in the organization ahead of the individual. Sometimes people will not do that. So I commend you for that, Jonathan. And I think a series certainly that made your selection even that much more valuable, important because it really meant you were the right person for the job. You were not influencing the decision. So I wanted to note that. So you’ve been a board member Tidewell, pre Empath Health, which is used the Empath Health name, but with Tidewell, and now you’re CEO. So can you talk a little bit about comparing and contrasting those roles and responsibilities? I just find that fascinating governance, governance, oversight. And now you’re the guy answering to the board. Just curious how those if you can compare those roles, please.
Jonathan:
Sure. Happy to do so. You know, it’s you often you’ve heard that phrase, you don’t know what you don’t know. And while I certainly took my board responsibilities seriously and have been on the tide, well, eventually the parent company board and some of our other committees, etc., for about ten years felt like I knew the organization really well. Shifting into management is absolutely a completely different dimension. And even though looking back for our organization, I truly feel that the board and the prior CEO always had a very harmonious and transparent relationship. I think probably the biggest eye opener for me is, is the board can truly never know 100% of what’s going on day to day operationally and across the various segments of the organization. So what is that lesson? I think the lesson is that I cannot underestimate enough how critical the selection process is for the right CEO and also having enough of that oversight, if you will, of the CEO’s team that the CEO is ultimately bringing in, too, because organizations, as they grow, certainly it’s not a one man band or one person band operation and having board oversight of the CEO and that leadership team is is is so important because the board has to have tremendous amount of trust, faith and confidence in their CEO. So I think that was certainly a big eye opener to me is just what the board doesn’t know and therefore leading to the importance of having trust because there’s just too much going on day to day. I think probably the other big shift is you hear it a lot, but until you actually live it and experience it, I think it means something different in context and that is that the board’s role ultimately is governance oversight, helping with big picture strategy, mission, vision setting, sort of the foundation for core values. But but it’s it’s so important, I think, for the board and for the CEO to respect the boundaries between the board’s role, governance, oversight versus the CEO’s role around operational leadership decision making. Certainly it’s important to have accountability and connectivity to the board, but ultimately the operational leadership and management responsibilities is is the CEO’s and respecting those boundaries is super important.
Michael:
Well, very good. I can only imagine that transition and probably drinking from a firehose, I mean, it maybe continues to be that way. So an organization your size and you could share the numbers that you can you said 60,000 people that you serve, but number of employees and revenue, if you’re able to share that churn, what do you need from a board? You’re the CEO. What do you need and hope and expect from a board of directors?
Jonathan:
Sure. So little sort of facts and data about about Empath Health. So from a gross revenue perspective, we’re in our our fiscal year 24 already. We’re on the Medicare fiscal year, which is October to September. So we have at $380 million gross revenue budget for fiscal year 24. If we are able to bring the organization together over in the Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale area, we will top 500 million will be our annual revenue by the end of the year. So I’ll talk through sort of where our current state is pre integration there. So 380 without the East Coast expansion 380 million, we employ about 3000 colleagues today and have close to 3000 volunteers would certainly this is very important for not for profits to plug into that volunteer community as well. So that’s a little bit of the data data metrics for us. And then shifting to really what can a CEO really value and benefit from the most with their board relationship. So first, I think it’s really important that that the CEO and the board are aligned and communicate regularly. What what’s the vision and ambition and strategic direction for the for the company? We are of a follower of the John Doerr sort of manage what matters and measure what matters philosophy. John Doerr was certainly a famous and well-regarded leader for companies like Google and Intel and others, so we built our entire strategic plan off of John Doerr. Okay, our system, which stands for objectives, goals, setting sort of under that strategic plan, and then measuring those key results all the way down from your organizational top level down to your front level management. So it’s it’s mission critical that all of those are in line between the CEO and the door and the board, rather. What are your top level objectives? What are your top level goals that you’re trying to get to? I think once you set that harmonious relationship and make sure that the strategic plan is certainly embraced and supported by the board, then you really move into ensuring that your board supports giving you the resource allocation that the organization needs to achieve those objectives and to get your key results. So getting resource allocated and resource allocation is mission critical for sure. A board relationship that sort of I think coincides with making sure that that the board and the CEO and leadership team is that we are all aligned with resource and fiscal responsibility decisions. So certainly the CEO does need some financial responsibility and authority, but it needs to be in lockstep with the board because the CEO certainly should never step outside of those boundaries, if you will, of of of what the board’s comfortable from a fiscal responsibility perspective. So making sure that the budgets are approved and we stay within those budgets, that’s a big one. Policy and governance. That’s generally certainly something that the board would set, making sure that the CEO and leadership team stays within policies and governance, evaluation and feedback. We’re right here at the beginning of a fiscal year end of our our last fiscal. So we just recently here at Empath finished our annual review cycle. My reviews are done by the executive committee every year. I think getting that performance evaluation or feedback is is super helpful. We do that through a pretty objective survey process which which I sort of would support advocacy that working across the community and in the state or nation, depending upon the size, that’s a great board responsibility, helping with stakeholder relationships to open communications. And then ultimately, while I certainly don’t have any plans to retire soon, having that succession planning is is always important. So an organization our size, but really frankly, any size. I do have unnamed successor in both an emergency situation. So the board always knows who I would designate to sort of be the interim CEO of something urgent or unexpected would happen with me and my abilities to serve. So succession planning certainly is a big deal. And then certainly at the point where I might be closer to that retirement phase, certainly as an organization grows, it’s it’s important that you have succession planning ahead of time. So we like to do that, frankly, up to two years in advance of a planned retirement. I threw a lot out there, probably more. But I’ll I’ll pause there, Michael, and see if you want me to keep going or ask questions?
Michael:
Well, I think that’s really important. Everything that you said, very important for an organization. Your side. I want to I want to zero in on something that always seems to be quite a balancing act, and that’s communication between you and the board, you in committees. And do you have a structured communication approach, Jonathan? Is it you talk to the board chair whenever? How do you approach that? Because you’re super busy guy. So how do you keep all that your arms around it and also ensure to back and forth communication with the board?
Jonathan:
I’m a believer that whether it’s board communications, college communications, community communications, that that the lack of communication can often be that you know, that the root of all evil. So I’m a believer we can’t overcommunicate. In fact, I have a running joke with the organization and the colleagues until they tell me that they are sick of hearing it. Every meeting we open with a recitation of mission, vision, values. And until everybody across the organization is just so tired of hearing it, you know, we’re going to keep doing it. Because I think communicating is just so mission critical to building the culture and the foundation fabric, if you will, of of of the organization’s heartbeat. So that sort of as a sort of a comprehensive philosophy of mine when I came in as the new Empath CEO, which frankly I’m about to celebrate my my one year anniversary, there was a whole plan. We called it Building the future. And the plan was very well thought out, but written out and methodical so that over my first year as CEO, we had constant check ins on on what the building the future planned look like as as a new CEO under under new leadership. So we do it through those kind of formats whether it be for a written special project oriented, but probably stepping back at a higher level. We believe annual meetings are very, very important. We do those now with the size and scale more in a hybrid environment. So some people can be in-person, but we have the technology and resources where people can come in through hybrid environments. But annual meetings are really important, sort of State of the Union, if you will. Then on a quarterly basis, we have what we call our quarterly affiliate reports with so many different entities and different service lines and different leaders across each of these service lines, we always want to make sure on a quarterly basis that we’re reporting out how we’re doing on our objectives and key results. So we report that out quarterly. Then we also have quarterly board meetings, generally have bi monthly executive committee meetings. That’s the chairman, vice chairman, past chairman and the and the Treasurer of the board and the corporation with me. So we’re all we’re doing that on a bi monthly basis. Try to alternate that in between regular meetings, certainly lots of committees. I don’t always attend the committees. Certainly some of the management team can have responsibility for some of the board committees. I’m a big believer in online digital communications. I do a lot of email communication and then in special meetings that can be just with the chair executive committee or even full, full board ad hoc as needed.
Michael:
So very intentional. Your communication is very intentional. I share that with clients that it can’t be haphazard. Haphazard. We just we’re all just too busy. You’ve got to develop a plan and be very intentional to ensure that the communication lines from the top and the bottom, because it’s not just going to happen.
Jonathan:
Completely agree in fact, every year we even will send out surveys to the board to try to always stay in touch with what times do they prefer to have meetings because you can often get different opinions there. We try to get them deaf of of statistical sampling or preference to set the times for the meeting. The frequency of the meetings. Some now are all in person, but most of them are hybrid. A few of them, especially on the committee side. We’ve kept completely remote to resume after the pandemic and getting used to that kind of format. But yeah, we’re very intentional about it. Set the schedule well in advance of each year and then we’re advocates and I don’t mean to be endorsing products, but we’re advocates too, of having online resources that can help the board, both from a meeting perspective, but also have access to information. So we use Board Effect and everything sort of goes through board effect is our code also calendars for meetings, all the documents, even for prior meetings, they can get access to it, our bylaws, things like that, policies, charters, all of that’s online to really give the tools of the board.
Michael:
Very good. Let me let me change direction a little bit because there’s always talk about in the world we got too many nonprofits. They ought to merge. Well you’ve been through well, at least one now, possibly another nonprofit. And oftentimes when when there’s a hiccup, it’s because of board dynamics. And how do you bring two boards together? How do you have those discussions and integrate those? So having experienced it and having course experience in previous life as an attorney, could you outline some best practices and nonprofit board integration, maybe even weave even some stuff that you all did and maybe would do differently now?
Jonathan:
Yes. So I don’t think I had any gray hair, by the way, before we started all these growth initiatives coming together, because I think I would be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge our our really a firm it’s hard merging not for profit or consolidating not for profits, bringing not for profit organizations together very, very hard. And having that experience, as you mentioned, both as a health care, higher health care attorney and consultant, doing a lot of integration deals as a profession and seeing it on the for profit side compared to not for profit, I would venture to say it’s it’s more challenging, generally speaking, on the not for profit side than it is the for-profit side. And I think there’s several reasons to really support that. One is often times not for profits, especially successful ones. They’re so deeply rooted in the communities and they have such amazing board members that are committed to the mission, committed to the organization, dedicated to the community. So the concept of how are we going to create something new, how are we going to bring to community organizations together sometimes in the same community, sometimes different communities with different values or different focus is how are we going to bring this together and create create something new? It’s just it’s emotional. There’s there’s a lot of of just of of that emotion. There’s a lot of that loyalty. There’s a lot of that sort of sense of pride and an on board connection to the organization that just makes it harder. And I certainly don’t want to imply that, you know, that humans are always money motivated. But I do believe when you compare that to the for profits, usually in a merger and acquisition or some sort of an affiliation, there is a big paycheck involved and and that’s a driver of getting things done. And can sometimes I’m not saying it takes all the emotions out of a transaction, but when you’ve got a buyer and a seller and a for profit environment and there’s going to be a big paycheck at the closing table, that’s a driver to get stuff done. Whereas as in a not for profit world, it’s it’s more intrinsic, it’s more emotional, if you will. And I think that whole complexity adds, adds a lot. Just picking the Empath name when when our legacy Tidewell organization came together with what was legacy Suncoast and Empath is sort of the parent system name. Just the name selection was was super super hard for for us too. I think analyze and and get consensus around so so those are I think some some big some big differences but at the end of the day what I would always encourage your audience not for profit members to to remember and take heart of is is the why why are the organizations coming together and if the why is for the right reasons which ultimately is to better serve the community, better serve the mission, better ensure the financial success, sometimes viability of the organization. If that’s your why, then you can’t ignore the noise. You can’t ignore these other issues. But but bring the organization back to that. Why? Because that that’s what we continue to do. Continue to do even today is why we’re doing this. And we’re doing this to preserve the not for profit hospice, home based care mission for the communities. We don’t continue to grow our our our sector in health care is really getting harder and harder to survive.
Michael:
And when you when the merger was even posited, whoever brought it up. So I’m thinking through the machinations, you you’ve got to work with your board chair. I assume that you two representing the initial discussions and then in Suncoast in this case, same, the CEO and Board chair. So you have those discussions then at some point you let the board. Now can you just, you know, lift up a tent a little bit? So what was that like? Do you recall? I mean, what were the conversations and then where did you go from there?
Jonathan:
Sure. So you’ve outlined it, I think, very well from a I think a best practice, if you will, perspective where the CEO board chair relationship is is is very, very important to to support and make sure is is strong. We have a two year term for board chairs. I think that’s important just to give enough longevity, if you will, to building the relationship and then sort of performing under that relationship. So we we have two year board chair terms and and then we did build a middle layer and as well through our growth and integration processes and that’s with the executive committee. So we we really would sort of go in that order first making sure that the that the CEOs and the board chairs were all aligned. Then we would move, then our executive committees. That’s generally, again, as I mentioned, the leader, the current chair, vice chair or path and or past chair with then another officer or secretary treasurer. So we would have our executive committees and then we would use that group to then sort of go out and make sure that we had broader board alignment for, for the integration opportunity. So there is a balance because we currently now have a 12 person board and eventually we’ll probably get that to 15. So it’s not an even number, although thankfully we’ve never had to deal with a tie vote. But, but we have a 12 member board now and certainly even at a 12 member board at the parent level because we also have affiliate boards, but at the parent level, it’s impossible to be effective in transactions and in coming together with 12 voices. So it’s it’s important to have that sort of unification and consensus at the chair level. Then you’re executive committee level, then you broaden it out. Did our board agree on every single principle, every single term? Of course not. So I think ultimately it’s not about having 100% unanimity on decisions. It’s more about getting that consensus where everybody can at least support it enough to move forward versus having a board member or more that would just outright veto it. So we fortunately never got to those. So that was sort of our our process.
Michael:
Boy, I could do a whole day interview on that. I just find that absolutely intriguing. Thank you for for sharing that. That gives us some insight. And anybody out there who is interested in merging organizations, that’s a solid approach. So so, Jonathan, a little bit your background and I want to tap in to this before we end the interview. You were an attorney. You worked for a number of for profit health care companies. You watched as CEOs ran those organizations. You’re a CEO of a nonprofit. Are there major differences between, at the end of the day, running the organization, a nonprofit and a for profit?
Jonathan:
So I’m asked that question a lot. And I think it’s a it’s a it’s a fabulous question. So here’s how I always answer this. I believe that that an organization’s tax status does not define good for great failure for average. It’s not whether you’re for profit or not for profit or your tax status. I think ultimately there are examples of great for profit organizations, very solid mission. There’s a lot of values, very active in the community, great cultures, and certainly, you know, same for not for profit. Certainly we all have paths in high regard there. But you can look to the other end of the spectrum and they’re they’re poor, poorly run and operated, manage for profits and poorly run and operated, not for profit. So I really don’t believe that the tax status is sort of what defines good from great or average from poor because of this reason. At the end of the day, our Michael, you and I certainly have used this phrase together in other contexts without a margin, there is no mission for any organization, regardless of your tax status. I think the difference is ultimately when there is margin that successful companies really need to produce, where does that margin go? And and fundamentally behind that is who does the organization answer to? Who is the fiduciary duty obligated to? And certainly the the fundamental difference is in a for profit, your fiduciary obligations are to return investor dollars of shareholder dividends or partnership returns. So it’s ultimately who you answer to that is the fundamental difference. Compare the for profit then to not for profit, ultimately not for profits. We answer to the community now by being tax exempt on all of our assets as well as our income. We have a charitable obligation to them, answer to the community and serve those charitable needs. So at the end of the day, it really fundamentally boils down to who do you answer to? We have to and do answer to the community to make sure we’re fulfilling our charitable purpose, providing charity care, providing programmatic supports to areas of the community that may be underserved, ensuring access to health care. That may be sometimes the for profits don’t always focus on because they may not have revenue associated with it. And that’s sort of the big difference is we answer to the community for profits, answer to investors. And and I would would sort of say that’s that’s the big difference. But at the end of the day, both organizations have to have a margin or we want to survive and thrive.
Michael:
Well stated. That was the best explanation I’ve heard. Thank you for sharing that. So before we go, one last question, Jonathan. And so as you moved into this role, what’s been the biggest learning curve for you?
Jonathan:
The biggest learning curve, I think, has probably been driven by external factors, and that is the ability to be valuable, adaptable, flexible and and and embrace change. You know, none of us know sometimes what we take on opportunities, what the future is going to bring. And I certainly never, ever want to put myself in the categories of, you know, the historical leaders that we all have learned about and read about that faced, you know, global challenges, you know, the Winston Churchill’s of the World with World War Two and US presidents that, you know, certainly to have faced economic meltdowns and other, you know, just earth changing and global changing events. But but I came into this organization and within the first 12 to 18 months, we were facing our global pandemic through COVID 19, we deliberately decided, to continue on with our growth, continue on with our merger. And frankly, we ended up having to do much of that over Zoom without even meeting in person, which was a whole new experience. I think probably the biggest learning curve for me and I would think this is true for many of your audience and maybe society as a whole is, is we just need to be adaptable to change. That’s just the reality of the global world that we’re living in. And if we if we resist change or if we reject change and if we don’t stay open minded to all of the changes that are going on around us and make sure that we as leaders aren’t leading the organization with the change and to take advantage of the change and to seize the opportunity. Because what the world looks like today will be potentially completely different tomorrow. It certainly will be very different next month and next year. So that’s probably been my biggest learning curve is just adaptability and being open to rapid change.
Michael:
Jonathan Fleece, Ladies and gentlemen, president and CEO of Empath Health. Today, a $380 million organization tomorrow probably closer to a half billion with well over 3000 employees. Jonathan, you have been a blessing to our community. I’m so glad you moved into this role and you really gave up a career to do it. Your humble and it is much appreciated. And thank you for being a guest on this podcast.
Jonathan:
Well, thank you, Michael. I’ll end with the great Mark Twain quote, The two most important days of our lives, the day we were born and the day we learn why. It’s just a blessing and a privilege. And though I was born in doing what I was meant to do and why I was born, so that it’s fulfilling every day. So thank you for having me and blessing to your audience, too.
Michael:
All right. We just heard from Jonathan Fleece, and now we’ve got recapping with Read, Read’s three observations there. We can limit it to three because that was just packed with information. Read, what stuck out to you?
Read:
Yeah. So as we go through these interviews, I take notes and I try to highlight what I want to talk about afterwards. And almost the entire notes is highlighted for me right now. But I want to start with Jonathan stepping off of the board during the hiring process to make sure that the process was truly independent and that he had no influence on if he would be end up getting that role as CEO.
Michael:
Yeah, just think about that. Set the tone for trust in the organization. People watch that. There are a lot of people that would not have stepped off the board to do that and people thought something was shady. So I commend him for that because he could have been out of a volunteer board positions. Perhaps they would have taken him back or he could have your re-enlisted, so to speak. But I commend him for that because that sets the tone for how he’s going to operate. Number two, Read.
Read:
So Jonathan said the board’s role is governance, oversight, big picture vision. But it’s so important for the board and the CEO to respect the boundaries. So the board sticks with oversight and the CEO sticks with the role in operational leadership.
Michael:
Yeah, and sometimes those lines do blur a little bit because they are subject to interpretation. So talk about it. Establish a boundaries, a guidelines for how we’re going to operate. If you’re the board in the board chair in the CEO, because there is a concern that there might be some creep, if you will. And a lot of times it’s honest and not intentionally to be anything alternative to that. So number three, Read
Read:
Number three is going to be about succession planning. So I thought it was really interesting that Jonathan does have a named successor in an emergency situation, but in the situation. In which he knows he’s going to retire, he knows that he’s going to give about a two year for the organization to find that next successor. So the actual succession plan for that is not made yet, but he knows the time line that he needs to give and Ben, they’ll develop the plan for hiring that next CEO.
Michael:
Sure and they are already talking about it, but certainly every organization will have a succession if if the CEO or the executive director gets hit by a bus, who’s going to run it? And it may be that board chair steps in for a second, should resign from the board. If to do that, it depending on the size of the organization or it could be somebody else in the senior leadership roles. But that should be defined because in the heat of the moment when emotions are high and there’s sadness, if something were to happen, you don’t want to have to be thinking through that process. So there you go, ladies and gentlemen, recapping with Read his three observations. I don’t know how he limited it to three, but he did a good job with that. And so we will see you next week on the 501CYou The podcast for nonprofit board members.
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